Sunday, December 4, 2016

Deliverance Ministries: Preying on the Vulnerable, Ill and Broken Hearted

This article is a continuation of these....the two articles I wrote on Betrayal. In these articles I mention being abused by a false deliverance person I thought was a friend.  I am going to go more in detail about deliverance ministries without naming names.


  Betrayal II 

 One thing I learned about this world, is people don't have to get money from you to prey on you. There's sociopaths and others who want to play with your mind for the sheer thrill of it. Once I was trying to publish a book on a secular topic, I went to a bookstore in a larger town and met the owner. I knew he held writing classes. I lived too far away to take any and he knew this. He pretended he had an "in road" in book publishing, because of his writing class connections. It seemed legit. My husband is a writer and worked in newspapers before they folded. I had my husband to edit thing professionally so the quality of the writing was good. I handed him some chapters from my book. This guy said he would help me get it published. Two months later he told me, a big publisher was interested in the book. I was excited. He told me he would send me the details soon.

 A week later he died, no email had been sent. I tried to get information from his widow as to the deal he had supposedly made, but she had no answers which seemed very suspicious to me. I contacted another student in his writing classes I knew of, and he told me, that he had promised him a book deal too. After some research and figuring things out and the widow's in put, we realized we all had been "had".

I said, "Why did he do this, he had no money to make from me"? The other student said, "He must have wanted the attention and to feel important." 

 There's a lot of self appointed experts out there. Many of them are liars.

Even writing this blog, I have told people I am not an expert just an ordinary person. Don't look to me like some guru, I don't want people following me, I want them following Jesus Christ and checking out His Word. I want them to think about some of the nonsense they are all trying to fool us with. Check things out for yourself and check everything out I write here too. I am not some icon of perfection. You will not find a Martha Stewart set table. My apartment is messy now because I have been sick for two days but I was able to help my husband with grocery shopping yesterday and still have to put my clothes away he washed.

 However some love to claim they are experts and icons of perfection.

 Let's call them Deliverance Ministers. 

 Deliverance Ministry is wrong on one basic principle, it puts another human being in a "priest-hood" position over another. 

This doesn't mean I deny the existence of demons or anything else Deliverance Ministries claim they are going to help people with. God's help is enough. I want you to imagine the power-games between those who are supposedly icons of goodness and perfection, and the "non-demonized" and the "demonized" people these people all claim they want to help. 

 I have a rare medical disorder that has physically deformed me and caused endless medical havoc. I can't even name it here, because it would put my anonymity at risk, because it is that rare and "weird". It was a 1 in 5 million lightening strike. Several other autoimmune disorders came with it, including impending deafness and I am still losing hearing to this day.  This made me vulnerable to someone's promises of healing.

It took the doctors over a decade to fully diagnose me. At one point in 2013, I had nurses begging me to go to Mayo while I received nursing care for a wide variety of problems.  I then managed to get diagnosed. The desperately ill are often desperate for healing. I have been disabled for over 20 years. I have suffered a lot. These health problems led to rejection even from my own wicked family because illness held me back from things. In my earlier life I held an art education degree and an art teaching job at a juvenile home and as a residential counselor. Even then because I did not make a 6 figure salary, I was deemed a failure among my better off family.

 This made me vulnerable. Some of the deliverance ministries will claim, that they do not believe in the prosperity gospel, but the prosperity gospel undergirds much of their teachings.

 Their basic teachings are that , if one is sick or having financial problems, that means there is some undealt with "sin" or "curse" in their lives instead of just being in this fallen world. It seems to me if bad things like illness and poor finances mean sin, that means better financial situations and health means "goodness". Talk about taking the American prosperity gospel to it's utmost zenith.

 On this point alone, these deliverance ministers prey on the vulnerable, the ill and the broken hearted. Add in the American culture's insistence that one always work on "self improvement" and "fixing" your life and it is a recipe for disaster. 

Be careful of anyone who promises miracles or healing.  They are all liars. They don't always charge money, sometimes they just want your soul.  Our culture sets up people to seek for answers in THIS WORLD. They tell you that happiness must be found here.

 Deliverance ministers present themselves as having all the answers. Often they are wealthier, more socially stable and accepted people who get a feeling of power over the vulnerable and those in lower socioeconomic and status positions in society. I believe they are dangerous. Christians need to stay away from deliverance ministers. 

I have yet to meet a "real one". I wrote on the betrayal articles how I ran into problems with a deliverance minister. When I started this blog, I met her, she too warned of the NWO and other things I talked about online as well.  We started up a friendship. She was someone I could talk about these things too. There was many years I cared about her as a friend so this is some painful stuff.  One danger of the Internet is it is not the same as knowing someone as in real life. Many of my commenters here talk about how no one understands around them and it is so rare to find someone to talk about these deeper Christian issues. Let me warn you of something, most are fakes out there. They corral anyone who dares to think independent. In this relationship, it would be normal friendly email for many years and then we started talking on the phone.

She told me she did deliverance. I questioned a lot of it along the way, but thought, "Well more prayer can't hurt!"  That was one of the biggest mistakes of my life. Here deliverance ministry becomes like Catholic confession. Deliverance people want to know every detail of your life. 

 I was told that my life would improve if I made sure I renounced every occultic and other involvement earlier in my life. As people who have read this blog know since I have admitted it all, I was a Unitarian-Universalist Theosophist, I dabbled in Wicca, numerology, Ouija, seances and astrology. I never went into deeper branches of magick and the occult, but studied and read about it. I visited psychics especially in the early days of illness. I of course grew up Roman Catholic too.

 This person got me to believe that I needed to deal with these things in prayers. I had renounced them all, literally throwing away witchcraft and astrology books when I got saved. I was supposed to list all these things, it was a long list and pray over each and every one of these things with them. At the time I did not see this as a problem. I certainly wanted "freed" from all the spiritual and other effects, these things would have had on my life. Because my illnesses were so extreme in symptoms and in number, I wanted any help I could get. I am still surprised I made it through 2013. Doctors even in 2008 told me I had only a short time to live.

 I've talked to others who have been with deliverance ministries, and they want a full synopsis of your life. A long list of things you did wrong, and things other people did to you. They delve into past histories of abuse, physical and other, dysfunctional families, any past occult involvements, and traumas. Some will fool you even worse pretending to be vulnerable themselves and to elicit your natural empathy while they hold no empathy themselves and will tell you their own traumas and abuses.  

This is just like today's modern pyschologists and counselors but without the legal protections and natural boundaries, they want to know it all. They are like a Catholic priest listening to your deepest darkest secrets, and making a literal list. Here the broken-hearted, sick, and lonely, can be prey, because they are often people who are more lonely and lack attention from others. For some of the most vulnerable, they can sneak in even more. My husband protected me from the worse. He would question it all. She talked to him on the phone, he saw her as a "friend" of mine and a nice person too but when the full weirdness got into full swing, he was as shocked and dismayed as I was.

God also protected me too. He sent me dreams warning me about this person to the point I had no point but to listen. There was a long long time, I "knew" she was false, but was too scared to break away because I wanted to keep my anonymity intact when it came to this blog. I had shared some very personal things with her and her supposedly with me too.

I have already paid some heavy prices for this blog, in terms of lost friendships and other life pressures. I do believe at least four trojan horse online "friendships" have been sent me for this blog. I never expected that. This not a huge blog. I do not have the academic and other credentials, to make it professional. Even with the writing, I only have time for quick edits and it is far from perfect. I am always behind on answering comments and emails. Sometime I do think about shutting down the blog because of all the troubles and worries that have come with it, but God has said "No" for now. There are times I think I have run out of things to write about and then think it is time to stop and then that changes. I have many new topics now to explore.

Even to this day I wonder why I was so extremely targeted. The only thing I can come up with is that I majorly stepped on some toes in some heavy articles especially from some years ago. Maybe it was when I questioned Calvary Chapel or maybe when I exposed the Whosoevers. There's tons of conspiracy and discernment blogs online. Maybe when a real person does one, who is sincere, they go for broke making sure only to have controlled ops in on the game.

 I hope I can help others though, in sharing what happened to me.  This is not an easy article to write. Yes I am embarrassed to have let this spiritual abuser in. Some may ask where was your discernment. Oh it was there, but out of loneliness, I kept wanting this person to be real. I wanted someone "real" to talk about the heavy issues I was learning about and discussing. I already had removed three trojan horses from my life where I had PM, phone and online contact, and there was part of me in denial about there being yet another one. I actually thought, "There can't be a fourth, someone has to be a real friend, there's gotta to be someone like you out there who sees some of these same things!" What a mistake that was!

 It could have been much worse, if there wasn't always a little voice standing back saying "Something is wrong here". She seemed like a nice person. I thought of her as my friend. She helped me even buying me a dress or two and once helping with some groceries when we came up short one month. I thought she was someone who truly cared about me as a person. I emailed her and had other correspondence with her for several years without a problem. It was a supportive long distance friendship. We just emailed for many years and phone contact came in later. We did a shared Bible study on the phone. I am often housebound and the companionship was something I sought after.   In many ways she was kind, helpful and thoughtful during those years giving me comfort and sharing prayers while I was sick but then when she started the "deliverance" talk that was the beginning of the end.

 What is weird, is I would debate with her. I did not agree with her theology of "curses". She told me she did "deliverance work" with other people and I knowing very little about it, thought, "Well more prayer can only help" so I said Ok.  She told me she had experience helping very ill people and the abused find healing. I was also separating from my family around this time which added another challenge to the whole mess.  They hated me for being a Christian and this grew in scope. I am related to the gay family I wrote about.  They are cousins. The anger over me posting the gospel on my Facebook wall and standing for the things I did grew stronger.  At that time I did not know that three members of the family had become homosexuals or that my mother was in on it before they all "came out" which they did on Facebook. The family was reacting scarily.  One cousin even called me to threaten me. This was not from posting anything against homosexuality directly but even just for posting gospel messages and bible verses.

Deliverance is a giant mistake. I cannot emphasize this enough. Spiritually, I was letting someone else step in to be a "mediator" between God and me. I renounce all deliverance ministries, as "priests" trying to get control over someone else's life and the domain of the prideful who think they have all the answers and that anyone who does not reach their idea of "perfection" is supposed to be "fixed" by them. Here American ideals of self improvement, prosperity gospel and Calvinist success marry into a rotting stinking stew. Stay away from anyone who wants to "fix" you. Isn't that 90 percent of preachers out there now? Where ousting out "sin" is a self improvement program. It is very painful to me, that I was seen as another "fix-it"project by someone else who never saw me as a real friend. There's some heavy burdens here where I feel immense pressures as a disabled and poor person in American society who has been deemed "unacceptable".

 Deliverance ministries are often racist and classist in foundation. They seek after people of lower status in American society to "fix". Many prideful women seeking after religious status, fall into the "busy-body" trap. One sees this in churches. I got a stomachache even at the church where I left the bible study where the women there remarked on often poorer relatives and friends who did not have their "lives together".  Most seemed to lack decent paying employment instead of having any real faults. I cringed thinking what must they think of me walking on this walker and not having vacations, home decor and other things to brag about.  I felt alone.

 1 Timothy 5:13 - And withal they learn [to be] idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not. 

 Be very careful of busy-bodies out there. I was afraid a long time because I had shared a lot with this person. I kept some boundaries up but let too many down as she 'shared' too. I am law-abiding and boring, I don't have any sexual past--my first love was my husband, or anything crazy for someone to use. At this point Satan's enemies have dug so deep I don't think they would have anything else to find out. A lot of the trojan horses first order of business was to influence me. One tried to sell Calvary Chapel to me, one told me Roger Oakland was the real deal. This one I think more and more just wanted to destroy me. 

 I have met others hurt by "busy-body" church women who pretend to care, and are information gatherers and then do the back stabbing. Deliverance ministers are often legalists. They see "god" as someone who will throw you overboard for the slightest transgression. Forget a head covering [this was something I did not agree with], then God will be angry. This one taught extreme fasting that was impossible for my health but I thought would be damaging to any normal person. Listen to one secular song, then hell and more demons await.

I wrote her emails I still have copies of where I wrote her saying "you are becoming too obsessed with demons and you have become too legalistic." She told me, things like you haven't had enough deliverance. In deliverance, I have noticed nothing is ever good enough, and the rules and hoop-jumping just got raised.

 They will tell you so much time has taken for damage to be done, and well we need time to "deliver" you. Of course one notices that nothing is changing for the better and they raise the goal posts at every step. For people of lesser faith, this could be a clear path into falling away which maybe was the intention all along? I think. It got to the point where this person actually acted and spoke like she was speaking for God Himself. Run like the wind if you ever encounter anyone like this.

 I stuck it in there with her, even worrying she had become sick and mentally ill and the duty of a friend was to have forebearance, so there was a lot of times I listened and was nice, and kept my real thoughts aside and I should have just walked away for good.  At those times I think she was being overtaken by NWO studies and other life issues and hopefully would be able to calm down and get to a better place. One thing about wicked people is they will take advantage of love, attachment and other feelings normal people have for one another that they lack. 

Instead I basically had a wolf in my midst doing great damage. It has taken me a year to even dare to write about what happened to me.

 I once told her in an email, "I pray God will free you of the superstitions. When someone knows about some conspiracies or how the world really operates and how evil it truly is with the endless betrayals, the pitfalls are endless. Satan can make you go all sorts of places" 

My husband was so upset at her talk of curses, he would tell me, "She used to be so nice, what is wrong with her?" He told me she acted like Skipper being afraid of the Tikki statue on Gilligan's Island. Her talk of witches, curses and demons escalated.

It got to the point where I was frightened. Keep in mind I had known her for some years at this period of time. In the earlier stages I listened to some of her curses talk and went along with it, which I am kind of ashamed of now.  When I look back, I still have many of our emails, she seemed to be a kind concerned friend for many years and then things just go crazy. While she is telling me some of this stuff, I am even arguing against a lot, but she never listens. She has no spirit of self examination nor of correction which should have served as a giant red flag to me.

I wrote her this too:

 I know I sent you that one verse from Proverbs some time ago where curses that are undeserved are not delivered. I am not telling you that you are doing anything wrong but to consider some of your conclusions. We must all test ourselves. When spiritual matters have become a source of pain one needs to step back and question why and how. We need to keep a balance in our lives. I feel like things were getting unbalanced. I am asking myself now if I have balance in my own Christian life.

I tried warning her, and telling her she was going down a bad path....I wrote this to her too.

  "I know that people can get into deliverance work and sometimes get led into some extremes. Think of those Ghana people who take things to extreme and Satan leads them down paths fearing witches. Why are all the deliverance ministries so far gone? I found one by accident online yesterday that was psycho where they had prayers to Jesus telling him to bless Chakras We are in the place where we are new world order aware and God has shown us more things. That can be a place where things can get dangerous because Satan always has tricks. The Grace of God does not denote worrying about a curse coming from 20 people. I see all the NWO aware Christians fooled by the Raiders News and NewsWithViews set. I am not going to spend life fearing the occultists, or their spells." 

 Her main message to me then mutated into this: that my life was in ruins and God was not healing and blessing me, because I was refusing "deliverance". At one point, I told her no more on the deliverance writing her a letter saying it broke down boundaries between friends, but I should have walked away then. She did not let up. Towards the end, she grew wickedly abusive, and told me, "You are going to die now because you refused deliverance and waited too long" Things got very scary, I felt threatened and like she was doing back handed messages. The last day I ever had contact with her she called me up and said, "A death curse in the mail has been sent to you by your family. If you touch the envelope you will immediately die". I was fed up by that point and made a joke, I said "Whats going to happen to the mailman?" and "What if I reach in and don't see it?" I then said, "That's enough", hung up the phone and never talked to her again. I ended a online "friendship" that had begun in 2002, when I was newly saved.  She never was a friend.

This person horrifies me now. The depth of evil was great here. I do believe they could have been a disinformationist and waged a campaign against me of many years of duration. I also notice when I was more stable, she did not do that deliverance nonsense but saved that for when my health was in a dangerous place and my financial struggles began. She told me she has had other deliverance "clients" , she wouldn't share details about them but I know they existed. That scares me. Some would go and live with her at her house. She would tell me she would take in homeless and other desperate people. This scares me for them now. My contact with her was all long distance, except for three days when she visited me and when I saw her in person, I knew what I needed to know but still took long to get away.

When I counteracted this person and stood up to them. I only got "know it all responses". There was no humbleness. They told me deliverance was only for the desperate. That those who refused deliverance which I had by that time, were "disobeying" God. They do really see themselves as spokesmen for God. They are not.

There are many wolves out there and abusive people.  People into deliverance seek power over other people. That's what it is about. Power. This one may have other worse agendas, but I believe some get a "high" just spiritually messing with people and pretending to act like they speak for God. Spiritual abuse is a serious problem out there, in the churches, among the pastors and more. I'll be frank modern Christianity is a cesspool. We are living in a time now where faith is under more pressure then ever. The wolves have indeed taken over.  Spiritual abusers love power. It's not just pastors who spiritually abuse, sometimes it can be a "busy-body" housewife or anyone else who thinks they can direct another person's spiritual life.

Don't make the mistake I did and share personal information with someone out of your own pain and suffering and desperation for relief. Be careful of would be online friends who can play games. Even in the real world be careful.  I believe she got in when I was having my serious kidney issues, and thought I was going to die soon. I was in extreme pain and very vulnerable. I had dealt with serious family issues of decades in duration. My husband has lost his career and for years we had struggled with extreme financial problems I have talked about here. My life was in tatters and still remains very troubled. The wicked will come in and kick you in the face when you are down. Don't even trust those who share their own problems or abuses always. There the wicked are merely eliciting your God-given conscience they lack to get you to "bond" with them. It is all a lie.

 Here too be careful in churches, a lot of spiritual abuses is happening even via shared prayer circles. They tell people to share prayers with each other and what to pray for and in that can elicit a lot of information on people. I noticed it in the Bible study, smiling sneers and wolf smiles over Sally's unemployed husband or Mary's drug addicted daughter. I wanted to throw up. Don't think always people have your best intentions in mind. I may write about this soon, but part of growing up as a Christian is realizing how evil this world really is. It is as bad as you suspect. Yeah I am being "negative" and all the things they brainwash you in this society about.

I struggle I really do, I believe some will fall away because some will be led by these sickening people to  think God has failed in His promises for us to have loving and comforting Christian fellowship. Jesus warned us in Matt 24:10. Many will hate and betray us. It is happening in my life and in many others. 

I remember one argument I had with her right before I ended the deliverance, this was verbal, where I told her, "Your deliverance is like witchcraft spells, say the exact right prayer and the trouble or the "demon" will be lifted". Oh if only I had seen that as the impetus to cut all ties with her at that point but I noticed that how FORMULAIC it all was, kind of like the Catholic Mass. They use fear of demons, and fear of death, and all sorts of things to wiggle in at people. They are snakes! She told me I had the "spirit of rebellion", which is one thing false pastors and other people will come up with. To "rebel" against them is to "rebel" against God. Remember one quality of Satan's followers is the extreme pride. They never admit they are wrong. The seared will never say "I am sorry" or "How can I make things better? with any sincerity.

I want you to think of the pride of someone who goes around too claiming everyone else is demonized and they are there to fix the problem.  Can someone really be accepting and a friend of someone they consider demonized to the hilt for being sick and having money problems? Sadly I think THAT is the attitude in the churches that if bad things have happened to you, it's your fault, you let demons and sin into your life. The prosperity gospel and "best life now" garbage IS the prevailing wind!

My deliverance minister told me things, like "You are the one doing the prayers, not me" when I spoke of these power differentials, but it was just all manipulation. People like this destroy people's relationship with God. They get them to see God as the demon and trouble vaniquishing ATM machine instead of the money spitting out one. They lie and tell people specific prayers will get automatic results. They tell people to deny their own God-given emotions and to deny reality about how the world really works, and that many die without miracles or solved problems. They attach a demon to everything. 

If my past faux friend was not a knowing deceiver then her own false religion got her into dwelling on the demons so much, she had them in control of everything. So wonder she feared a "witch" and a curse on every corner. One weird thing she told me was that witches could deliver curses by proxy, and hand them over a person like the mail-man or someone else they knew without the person knowing. Her knowledge of "witchcraft" and "demons" seemed based on combination of Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Frank Peretti novels. I told her when I messed with Wicca in the past, I never heard of such a thing. I did learn something about myself, there is such a thing as too much forebearance and trying to be nice, when someone is weirding you out or scaring you. There is also bad things in humoring someone and "going along" to "get along". If someone talks to you about MK Ultra outside of true warnings and other weird things be careful too. While I believe those are "real" conspiracies, all we have to do is examine the life of Michael Jackson and Brittany Spears, there are "conspiracies" used to abuse people and try to bring them into an unsound mind.

2 Timothy 1:7

For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love and of a sound mind.

Deliverance ministers attack sound minds. They want you to let down your guard and boundaries to let them in to control. With their false promises for better health, and closeness to God and improved lives, they are salesmen for Beezelebub, with their talk of generational curses, soul ties and other nonsense. Demons are their hench men, and the ones they want you focused on. Every fallen world problem from acne to a broken down car especially for the most Pentecostal ones, is seen as "demon caused". Insanity and mental health problems can lie on that path. If the name of Jesus Christ can cast out all demons, why do they claim their "deliverances" take months and years and years? That is one place to suspect them as wolves. Even the secular counselors now stick to only 5-6 sessions nowadays for the sake of insurance costs.

In my case, she didn't have one dime to make off me, but I got a lot of trouble for ever having met this person. I can't implore you enough stay away from all deliverance ministers. It is only God's job to "fix" you, no one else's.  Depend on God for everything.  Stay away from "Christians" who have the "deliverance" mindset towards anyone who is sick or poor. They will lead hell right to your door and destroy whatever is left of your self esteem in this sicko society.  Be careful of the desire for human companionship or loneliness or health struggles  leading you down false paths. Someone who does not accept you as you now are, is not a real friend. They are no different from Tony Robbins and Landmark Forum programs with their lying promises of earthly "happiness" and "success".  They pray on the vulnerable, the ill and the broken hearted. They don't love, they hate. 

Jesus Christ promises eternal life with Him once we are saved, not a perfect life here or being a "perfect" person, that is another point upon which their entire "deliverance" program fails.


Anonymous said...

you have my thumbs up and support, don't stop get people to think...exactly, what "they" don't want people to do..cause once people start thinking with the brain God gave them, you start to question the false authority system and the beast will rear it's ugly head at you...Christ even said, his coming would cause division! May God's Spirit bless you with all spiritual blessings!

Bible Believer said...

Thank you anon, I appreciate it. I think people will see what I have gone through via this article. I want others to be spared. Deliverance ministry in total is a con. They do not want anyone thinking or writing, I know it to the core of my being. You are right about the beast rearing it's ugly head at you. God bless you too. :)

Anonymous said...

Too bad you had to suffer through this con for so long, but at least, you're past it now -- and it's a good thing that you're not trembling whenever that tiki statue pops up! If it looks like something out of the Middle Ages, smells like something out of the Middle Ages, and it sounds like something out of the Middle Ages, it's...well, you get the idea.

Anonymous said...

That sounds like the same lady in South Carolina who was trying to deliver me back in 2013. You are not the only one. I was going through a terrible time and she took advantage. I only fooled with her for a span of about 6 - 9 months though. Lots of talk of witches and demons. I "needed" her (and hubby was involved) to get cleansed and prevent myself from falling prey to apostasy. She wore a little doily head covering while we prayed. I drove to see her. She did not charge me, but let me know about something her husband needed and I bought it for them-- (about 70 dollars) She was / is obsessed with the occult and witches and was very into exposing the NWO. She was also info fasting. She tried to manipulate and shame me into something that was a very big and personal decision in my life. I didn;t listen. but she still tried to shame me.

Anonymous said...

I see where Kim Clement recently died. He was one of the worst so-called deliverance ministries.

Bible Believer said...

Yes it was a "con" in every since of the word, people like this will do things like this even for power-trips alone and other agendas. Agree about the middle ages stuff.

It's too bad anon you dealt with a false deliverance minister too. Yes we need to run from anyone who over-focuses on the witches and demons. NWO-aware does not mean their head is screwed on right or their heart is in the right place either. I am glad you were able to break away and didn't listen on the attempted control.

Yes I've heard of Kim Clement, he was definitely a false teacher and had wide audience too on TBN

Anonymous said...

BB, you are not the only one to "grandfather in" people that you have known for a long time and have a hard time believing their true intentions. I know someone who has discernment now, but married a fake Christian soon after being saved, then did not realize until decades later she was an enemy working against him with lies! Finally he started asking the right questions and God revealed his wife as the problem.

How about we all take a little time now to pray for wolves around us to be exposed sooner rather than later...

Anonymous said...

Yes Bible Believer,

Great article, very timely. We had a deliverance elder visit our home as he was told by his Pentecostal pastor and eldership team that "he had the gift of deliverance." Arrogant was he in self promoting his fake gifting, and we invited him into our home so he could lay hands on us and heal our infirmities. He left our home with such spiritual arrogance and confidence that he healed us by his prayers, his hands, and "his ministry."

I couldn't wait for this man to leave for I just couldn't stomach the narcissism coming out of this man's mouth as I knew his prayers and ministry was fake. We ended up visiting our local medical staff for proper healing procedures.

One of the signs of a false prophet, false healer, false leader of any kind is "self promotion." If the false believer promotes themselves instead of lifting up the Name and Ways of Jesus, then you shall know you are dealing with a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Most who want to anoint you with oil and lay hands on you, actually don't care one single mite about your health or your relationship with Jesus Christ, what they really care about is boasting and bragging about their own hyper spirituality in gathering followers after themselves, instead of leading people to Jesus and His Coming Kingdom.

Jesus knows and He sees who are His, He cannot be fooled.

liz said...

the most important thing I have discovered in the last couple of years is this - and only 2 people have said it - actually they just mentioned it briefly , but when I heard it I was blown away - the 2 people who said it were Eustace Mullins and Brother Nathaniel- and what they said was this - if you believe and follow Jesus demons can't get you - you are protected from any demons through your connection and love for Christ.

this is awesome ? I wish I had known it when I saw the film The Exorcist at the cinema when I was 13 yrs old - which prompted a spiritual crisis for me - the most scary thing about that film I have now realized is that Christianity loses and the devil wins - it made out demons and devils can enter into us and there is nothing we can do about it - THIS is the terrifying bit - in the film if the priest's faith had been strong the devil would've been toast but the priests faith was insipid and weak - thanks Hollywood for all the bad PR for Christianity - and have you noticed in every Hollywood film they get the characters to curse using the name Jesus - which I hate - it makes me wince every time I hear it - it has taken root as an everyday curse now - you can go into a shop and the assistant might say it - so stupid are people to let Hollywood manipulate their culture and religion.

so to sum up - if you are close to Jesus demons can't get you - it is as simple as that and yet hardly anyone one seems to know this

may I suggest you try flaxseed oil capsules for your health - they are full of omega 3 and are amazing for every aspect of health

this life is not heaven it is meant to be difficult and we have to endure it and get through it of course there are all sorts of cures out there - for example omega 3 diet for Bipolar disorder aguaji a peruvian fruit for menopause - lots of things we should explore and make the most of and we have to count our blessings

as for astrology I still sometimes read my horoscope I just acknowledge that God is the boss and has the last word on lots of stuff like that - I used to do the iching all the time and it told a lot of truth but I gave it up because I wanted guidance from God and a closer relationship with Him

people can be awful and yet if I go out with a resentful attitude I know I am wrong - I know I have to have a good attitude - it's what God wants - despair is a sin

Anonymous said...


I am not sure about this because I go to a church with a high deliverance ministry and as far as I know, they seem okay to me.

And yes, people have been healed from physical illnesses. I myself have been healed from a debilitating condition of the mind.

They lay hands on people and command the sickness or demon to come out. People are anointed too.

No, they do not dig into your past or current business unless you volunteer the information. In fact, they do warn you about that. Not sure about the US but over here in the UK, we have this thing known as 'safeguarding' which means that any place that deals with people such as members of the public have a legal obligation to report anything that they hear that may sound as if a person is at risk to the authorities. For example, if somebody tells a pastor that they are being abused or taken advantage of, they have to report this, therefore if they (the church) have a suspicion that you will disclose information that will legally bind them, they would normally say - "say no more".

They are not interested in your affairs. All they ask is that you believe that you can be healed, quit practising things that may halt your healing and be open enough for them to help you. As any counsellor would tell you, if the client does not open up and withholds information that could halt their healing, then it is a waste of everybody's time. They also do not believe that everything happening to you is a result of sin but generation curses and maybe poor choices caused by your upbringing.

I am sorry bible believer that you have had such an experience. It sounds what you have described in terms of deliverence ministries wanting you to reveal all about your past and everything you have done a similiar kind of method that scientology uses to break down new converts reserves and control them.

liz said...

I just want to point out again that flaxseed oil in capsule or liquid form (organic if possible) is very good for auto immune conditions I really urge you to try it - it can stops allergies or at least bring relief - you don't have to publish this comment it is just a suggestion for you

Anonymous said...

I also had similar experience as BibleBeliever2 & Commenter # 4. The fake "deliverance" "minisater" was ALL about power & control, & she ALSO tried to FORCE me to wear stupid head coverings & tried to force me to fast, etc. She talked about witches & demons day in & day out, & she was hypocritical & inconsistent with EVERYTHING!

I mistakenly thought that "I" was in the wrong, & you couldn't question her motives, or else you'd be labeled a witch in order to be kept "in line". She has a trailer & a cabin, which is the secret punishment room for "victims". I SERIOUSLY feel that maybe SHE wants her victims set up for sacrifice.

Buying me stuff I told her NOT to, & preying on my emotions & times of crises. She tried to act like a false savior. She treated me like I was in SPIRITUAL detention.

With this person, it seems like every BLACK person who she "delivered" came from a Voodoo family & was supposed to beset up for "sacrifice", but not the White people she "delivered".

Anonymous said...

dear bible believer the barnes review is not only hitler praising jew hating holocaust denying website out there but there an few like smoloko, metapedia and tomato bubble.

Bible Believer said...

I believe there is protection from demons when one is saved. I raised that issue with this "deliverance" minister, how could I be saved and have demons "inside"? Isn't a Christian supposed to have the Holy Spirit indwelling? A lot of the theology makes no sense.

The Exorcist is an awful movie that does have the devil win, it also tells the world casting out demons in the name of Jesus Christ is not enough, and that we need Rome's priests, special rituals and rites to rid ourselves of demons which is a lie from hell. You will notice the demons have all the power in that movie and they "win" in the end. Those movies make me ill and yes it is bad PR.

Many in the church system, have more trust in Rome's exorcists then Jesus Christ to protect them from demons. I had that thought during times in this process and would argue with her, "Why are these demons so powerful to you?" and "where is God's power if they are running so much of the show?"

Agree about the curses, being advanced. I have eaten flax seeds in some organic cereals but I would be willing to try flaxseed oil. Rethink the horoscope stuff but youre probably reading I hope being skeptical thinking "yeah right". I'm not going to walk on eggshells for sociopaths, narcissists or the demons they all tell me have taken me over. I know about iching, did that too during my pre-Christian days, and used to do astrology charts. All deceptions of the devil. God's power wipes away that stuff.
Be careful Sally Says, I hope your church is legitimate, it is a good sign that they don't pray into personal business and keep tabs though. I do not believe all illness is from demons, but hopefully they are balanced. I would think UK's laws probably are harsher to would be cults and religious extremists. Here anyone can hang up a shingle and claim deliverance. Mental and psychological abuse are still "legal".

I am glad your church has some standards in this way and has not gone the way of what I deal with. I agree it is the same methods the Scientologists use, one reason people are so controlled in that church, is they have them do "tell-alls" with the E-meters and I read Leah Remini said that is one way the church people keeps people in line recording their personal confessions.

Yes this is known methods in mind control too. Have people share their inner selves and the break down begins.

Many of the sociopaths "mirror" too, and get people to open up sharing like stories, experiences and more. As someone who was writing a blog like this meeting someone I thought who shared the same opinions was of interest to me. They seemed to be on the "same side" wanting to talk about what was happening in the churches and more.

I had someone else enter my life, who supposedly shared one of my rare medical conditions, and they were another deceiver, they shared stories of abuse and more to get me to open up, and played "false friends" games. As I have said, some weird stuff has happened to me I believe as a result of this blog. I got someone's attention and they don't like what I am up to. They may be someone who got sent out for another area of life where I was whistleblowing and expressing unwanted opinions.

It is all ways to control people.

Other anon, I do want to try the flaxseed oil, thanks, I will look for some organic, I do realize I need to get some outside helps for autoimmune conditions.

Bible Believer said...

4:14 anon my comment to you got erased, comment was too long, but I agree about the self-elevating wolves. I hope you were able to get away from that narcissistic man. Anyone who touts special gifts and lording it over, is not to be trusting. I do believe the Bible is clear that there are gifts, but the humble braggers and other liars need avoided like the plague.

Bible Believer said...

Sorry you went through this too anon at 9:38 am. I feel for anyone who has gone through any experience. Unstable men/women are inconsistent, but of course some have raised the legalistic bar and rules so high, no one can meet them not even themselves. The fasting in this case seemed like starvation like cults use to break down people's wills. All the focus on demons and witches too is a red flag.

One thing that can happen is these people can make someone feel like they are the "wrong" one and "sinner" and like they are superior. I do believe people who were raised in abusive families and have PTSD or other experiences, could be more prone to abuse too by one of these Satan's deceivers. Yes if everyone is a witch, who they disagree with, then how do you win with those gaslighting arguments? That is scary if you saw any set ups up like that, like a compound? Or Jim Jones set up, they had their isolation room. Even Leah R has revealed secret punishment internments for Scientologists. That is all the work of cultists. I hope no harm came to you and you were not physically "punished" and since you are posting here, praise God you were able to get away. Hopefully no one came to physical harm from these people and were able to escape.

I wonder too about false deliverance ministries that could be set up for closet Satanists or more to bring in hurting, broken and vulnerable people to victimize. Some may do the worse to people while others seek after Satan's favor just for psychological and mental tortures. Still others could be controlled opposition, who have been given the job to mess with any whistle-blowing Christians or others who have left the church compounds and are writing or doing other things online.

Oh one thing in the article I did not talk about. My spiritual abuser told me her husband was an ex-Satanist and had escaped a Satanic family and gotten saved. Later I thought perhaps they are still Satanists, and that was their "tell". [When I saw her in person, my discernment was basically screaming] I speak of an anti-Christian past but there, they use the Christian's relief of coming out of falsehoods, and Satan's lies and twist it against someone.

Imagine these people rounding up desperate, homeless or other poor people, or others seeking after spiritual solace and comfort only to re-victimized.

Others could be other types of deceivers. I never trusted Russ Diznar

These type of wicked people know how to manipulate at the deepest levels. I may write some on how the wicked operate to warn others here. They have many techniques they use on people and it is one way they are all the same.

I am so sorry this happened to you. Yes they put themselves forth as someone who cares or a "helpful" loving friend but then are anything but.

That sounds like some implicit racism that she told her black 'deliverance' clients, that they were all victims of Voodoo, and were would be "sacrifices" and you noticed the difference with her white clients.

I hope you are safe now and know personally spiritual abuse can be hard to face. I am praying for you.

AW said...

Yikes Liz, I don't even know where to start! I suspect Biblebeliever is already very well aware of nutrition and alternative health options, and I believe her when she says that her health problems are severe. And much of the auto-immune problems are severely exacerbated by having been a target of abuse throughout childhood and beyond, something Omega 3's won't fix.

Eustace Mullins and Brother Nathanael? I don't know which one's worse, Mullins who was funded by John Birch Society financier H.L. Hunt (whose son Nelson funded the CNP), or 'Brother' Nathanael and his fascist & intelligence-connected 'Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia.' Both of them are virulently anti-Semitic as well. I'm surprised you needed their input to come to the conclusion that Christians need not be focused on demons.

While despair is not okay (though quite understandable when someone is going through such severe problems), it is not accurate to say that we must always have a good attitude. Resentment is not okay, but even a quick read through the Psalms makes it clear that it is more than okay to angry at what angers God, to hate what God hates, to be incensed at oppression and injustice because God is also.

Some of us are where we are in life (poor and with severe health problems) precisely because of the abuse from someone else, often a parent who was supposed to love and care for us. Having a bull's eye on your back growing up as a child causes all kinds of severe, long-term physiologic health problems as well as emotional scars. God healed me of many hurts when I got saved, but He did not remove all of them nor did He remove the physiologic consequences. He is free to heal and to not heal, and it's not a lack of faith on my part, but rather an acceptance that there is suffering as part of human existance and God is not obligated to remove it from me. Too much of these teachings otherwise are motivated from fear (of pain, hardship, suffering), rather than blessing the name of the Lord regardless of whether He chooses to give or to take away.

And to SallySays: "As any counsellor would tell you, if the client does not open up and withholds information that could halt their healing" <-- that is nothing short of emotional blackmail. 'Well, we aren't going to pry, but if you refuse to share everything, then how are we supposed to help you... sigh'. No, apart from the Lord's direct leading, it is very foolish to show vulnerability. Anyone who thinks otherwise has simply not yet had the misfortune of dealing with a sociopath or malignant narcissist.

'Generational curses' are NOT biblical. You cannot use Ex 34:5-7 without also taking into consideration Deut 24:16, Ex 32:33, Ez 18:1-4 & 33:17-20, where God makes it explicitly clear that He does NOT judge or punish the children for the sins of the fathers. With that in mind, the passage in Ex 34 is actually talking about God delaying or withholding judgement for several generations.

AW said...

Generational curses aren't Biblical, con't

“And the Lord descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the Lord. And the Lord passed by before him, and proclaimed, ‘The Lord, the Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children’s children, unto the third and to the fourth generation’.” — Exodus 34:5-7


That last part about “visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children” is often mistaken to contradict the rest of what God declared about His own character. However, scripture must be interpreted by scripture, and as we see in the following passages, God Himself is quite clear on judging each person for their own sin.

“The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.” — Deuteronomy 24:16


“And Moses returned unto the Lord, and said, ‘Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold. Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin–; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.’ And the Lord said unto Moses, ‘Whosoever hath sinned against Me, him will I blot out of My book‘.” — Exodus 32:31-33


“The word of the Lord came to me again, saying, ‘What do you mean when you use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying: “The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge”? ‘As I live,’ says the Lord God, ‘you shall no longer use this proverb in Israel. Behold, all souls are Mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine; the soul who sins shall die.” — Ezekiel 18:1-4


“Yet the children of your people say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ But it is their way which is not fair! When the righteous turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity, he shall die because of it. But when the wicked turns from his wickedness and does what is lawful and right, he shall live because of it. Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ O house of Israel, I will judge every one of you according to his own ways.” — Ezekiel 33:17-20

When God says that He repays the iniquity of the fathers unto the children, it is referring to His mercy in holding off or delaying judgment for several generations beyond the original iniquity/sin.

Bible Believer said...

Thanks anon for warning Liz about Eustace Mullins, I saw that name, and almost addressed it but was more focused on other points but thanks for pointing out those deceivers.
s, to be incensed at oppression and injustice because God is also. I do not go along with the "be positive" stuff. One thing I want to write on soon, is how the NWO wants all emotions suppressed.

It is true abuse puts many where they are at. I have no family left. I had minimal contact with one cousin but that will probably end as he has been taught to believe I am "crazy" for leaving the family church and walking away from wicked people and abusers. When one has a sociopathic parent, it is serious business. My family is definitely sold out to the system and rewarded by it. A born again Christian in their midst is an affront. If one encounters decades of abuse, while one can be born again, it does take time to heal of the emotional scars. Some things will never be the same for us, like how they are for people who had the love of a caring family. Much in America especially is about giving people false dreams and hopes for this world, and this idea if you "try hard enough" all problems will be solved. Many are stuck in "whistle by the graveyard" land where they want all hurting people silenced, instead of trusting in God for tribulations they want all the people quiet and smiling like in a cult.

I agree about the showing of vulnerability. Malignant narcssists and sociopaths use vulnerability. The therapist who says, "Why do you have the wall built so high?" is one who has never personally encountered sociopaths out for destruction of a human soul. Evil is growing out there. Many of the sociopaths themselves while doing MIRRORING techniques, FEIGN their own vulnerablities. The spiritual abuser here and even one other, told me of horrible abuses and in doing so they elicted my sympathy and empathy to make me more vulnerable to their manipulations. That is one techique they use. One thing I have to be careful of is I used to believe if a person was equally vulnerable or open to you, that meant they were trustworthy, well this isn't so true anymore.

This spiritual abuser told me I was under generational curses for my family too. I remember counteracting that with this verse

John 9

"1And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. 2And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? 3Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him. 4I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work. 5

The more I thought about it, I thought why should I be held responsible for the sins of others, that made no sense.

liz said...

OK everyone I know Eustace Mullins and Brother Nathaniel are "controversial" but I love both of them and I am not anti Jewish - my Dad was Jewish - I found out after he died and I am proud of this heritage my Dad had great qualities and my best friends when I was a kid were Jewish but not orthodox. Yes many Jews are Central Bankers minions but many aren't today we are all pretty much mixed up nothing is black and white anymore.

As for exorcism it is the strength of belief in Jesus that powers the exorcism - which should be just a prayer meeting with a handful of people not a spectacle with lots of chanting and stupid stuff like that. The other thing is this anyone who believes and follows Jesus has the authority to cast out demons - it says this in the Bible - I say this with experience because I performed an exorcism once it was kind of unintentional - it was even a bit funny - it was on an anorexic family member - I'm not lying either I swear to God it happened. I keep quiet about it most of the time but here seems to be a good place to share it. I don't want to big myself up about this but I do want to share it - it is amusing - when I tell people that I meet they love it lol.

Omega 3 can work wonders

Anonymous said...

You said, "The more I thought about it, I thought why should I be held responsible for the sins of others, that made no sense."

They want you to feel false guilt! This is a tactic used on those that are vulnerable, fragile, like a "bruised reed" and "smoking flax."

AW said...

Biblebeliever, that passage in John is spot-on. Jesus touched on the very same assumptions that humans tend to make, that if something bad happens to you, you must have done something to deserve it.

Luke 13:1-5 - "There were present at that season some who told Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And Jesus answered and said to them, “Do you suppose that these Galileans were worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them, do you think that they were worse sinners than all other men who dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.”"

Anna Salter explains in her book on Predators that many times people often assign too much blaim to the victim in their attempt to make themselves feel safer and more in control of their environment (i.e., they can avoid having the same thing happen to them by doing x-y-z, which the victim obviously didn't do).

"On the other hand, what would you rather believe? That you could change the length of your skirt or your hair and never be raped again? Or that it was a random assault, which nothing you did or could do would have prevented, and therefore, could happen again at any time, any place, for the rest of your life?"

"When we are confronted with bad news, it seems we try desperately to make sense of it, to put in in some framework that allows us to explain, even to rationalize it, while maintaining our overall positive worldview. Most of all, it seems, we want to believe the outcome is just... There are no perpetrators in this nifty --and just-- world we construct, and no innocent victims either, not really. What seems like a perpetrator is actually just another victim, and what seems like the victim of his brutality is really someone who shouldn't have gone out at night in the first place and thus is responsible for not avoiding the assault. Easy to bring the world quite round if you work at it.

"Oddly then, in our search to find meaning, we often assign victims too much blame for their assaults and offenders too little. Our inconsistencies do not seem to trouble us, but they are truly puzzling. After all, if the offender is not to blame for his behavior, why would the victim be, no matter what she did or didn't do? Our views make sense, however, if you think that we are trying to reassure ourselves that we are not helpless and, that, in any case, no one is out to get us."

(from Predators: Pedophiles, Rapists & Other Sex Offenders -- Who they are, how they operate, and how we can protect ourselves and our children by Anna Salter)

Although this distortion of reality to maintain one's rose-colored view of the world is understandable, I've no stomach for it because it ALWAYS contributes to further oppression and traumatization of the victim. This is the over-riding theme of the book of Job, in fact. All of his 'friends' say things that may very well be true in other circumstances, but basically they keep arguing with Job that he must have done something to deserve what happened to him. They get quite angry with Job for continuing to protest his innocence and uprightness. And Elihu? Don't get me started on that classic malignant narcissist! (It's also important to note that nothing Job said was misrepresenting Him... He said His servant Job had spoken of Him 'rightly,' unlike Job's 3 friends).

AW said...

I apologize Liz if my comment was overly harsh. I didn't intend to be. You are quite right that Omega 3's can be very helpful, but as a trained medical professional, I'm also aware that there are numerous conditions that it wouldn't do much in the way of helping symptoms, let alone curing the illness. It definitely couldn't hurt to try though.

I wish I could agree with you that nothing is black and white anymore when it comes to extreme anti-Semitism, but I'm increasingly alarmed at not only how much never actually went away, but also how much it's resurged, even in groups not traditionally associated with those beliefs. I do hope I'm wrong in my concern, but there's just so much of the same propaganda going around now as when the Nazis rose to power, even using the same coded language of 'international bankers' and 'rootless cosmopolitanism.' Even 'materialism' and 'neo-cons' are often used specifically in the context of race or nationality rather than an adjective, and don't get me started on the Christian Identity teaching of serpent-seed that so many undiscerning Christians are embracing under the Nephilim teachings.

Perhaps you can ignore those parts of Mullins and Nathaneal teachings, but too many other people aren't and it always leads somewhere very bad. Just my thoughts.

Anonymous said...

"and don't get me started on the Christian identity teaching of serpent-seed that so many undiscerning Christians are embracing under the Nephilim teachings."

This is a popular lie taught by many via the Trinity Broadcasting Network. The last church I came out of, Bapist in denomination with an Assembly of God pastor man, was BIG on pointing me to those false teachers on TBN, stating to me on a regular basis, "You need to listen to so and so for they know god so well." And when I shared that we did not have television service in our home, then they began to give me books in "ministering" to me, by the same wolves in sheep's clothing at TBN. Guess they figured I wasn't spiritual enough as I didn't speak the same 'christianese' language, nor was I having profound trips to the third heaven like some were doing.....and speaking of the wonderful things they saw there. BLEH!

These same people promoted the 'generational curse' lies as well, which became another point of contention with the Nephilim folks.

Thanks AW for pointing out these teachings and the need for prayers of protection against such deception. As the Ekklesia of Christ, this reminds me so much, how we still need to lead people to Jesus, the Christ, instead of any man or woman as the true Cornerstone of His Body. Thank-you for that gentle reminder.

Bible Believer said...

I should check out that book called Predators by Anna Saltar.

Blame the victim is big now in narcissistic America, and well it's entered religion. Only "bad" "non-positive" people don't "overcome" their challenges. In a world where everything is about "winning", having the 'best life" now is everything to these people and status is assigned accordingly. I can tell my spiritual abuser did not go after any middle class or plus housewives but people she saw as her "lessers".

Many are in a false "whistle by the graveyard, "I am so blessed" Christianity.

I have to admit while there is some true meaning to saying "I am blessed" as a Christian, for many it seems to be bragging rights meaning, "I am a good person who God has blessed" instead of a "bad one" He has not blessed"

The wicked have many excuses made for them. Ann Salter is right about the rape victims. Sadly many are told, "quit playing the victim" and "take intiative" and it's your fault you are abused.

When this happened to me, I had the thought and I may have even voiced it to her once but I know I did with others...

How come I'm the demonized one instead of the actual abusers and wrong-doers?

And on that point ALONE many deliverance ministries are full of bunk. It's funny how they tell the victims of everything from economic oppression to other abusers, that they are the ones full of demons, while their abusers and wicked people remain scott-free.

I think some do divide the world into a "THEY DESERVED IT" bunch, ie, if they have normal good lives where no horrible tragedy has happened to them, they don't think by the grace of God go I, but those other people are to blame.

It does contribute to great oppression of the victim. One sees this in the churches far too often. Bad things happen to you, it's your fault. Quit being a victim they will tell someone or you are demonized and need deliverance because you have been the punching bag of the wicked. Always the person is told by their abusers and would be "saviors" that they are the ones in the wrong and something had to be wrong with them to get abused, or hurt or have tragedy in the first place.

I agree the book of Job is important here to counteract these things.

Bible Believer said...

I encountered the Nephilim garbage when I was in the UU and Theosophy reading esoteric books. Alice Bailey was surely into the watchers.

Its so creepy it hit the Christian mainstream.

AW said...

TBN? Oh dear, that's even more undiscerning people embracing this... it's definitely intentional (& systematic dehumanization usually ends up in genocide, but don't worry, they'll target ALL their opponents, not just the Jewish people with this teaching).

BB, it's fitting you mention the beliefs that have become so prevalent in America now, because the part of the chapter I 'ellipsed' specifically discussed how 'New Age' teaching further oppresses the already-traumatized. I have a lot of respect for authors like Anna Salter and Lundy Bancroft, because when they came across peoples' behavior patterns in real life that didn't match their training, they adjusted their outlook to the facts, not the other way around. Neither author is a Christian, but both are brutally honest in their evaluation of human behavior, a refreshing change for those of us who have been on the receiving end of the wicked whom society almost always helps and defends against the victim's truth-telling & cry for justice.

We know there is not much justice in this world. That is a truth I hold onto as God continues His final judgment, that it's precisely because of all the oppression, exploitation, plundering, and wickedness, & the lack of justice for victims who continue to suffer. God especially loathes the wickedness that hides behind His name.

For thus has the Lord of hosts said: “Cut down trees, and build a mound against Jerusalem. This is the city to be punished. She is full of oppression in her midst. As a fountain wells up with water, so she wells up with her wickedness. Violence and plundering are heard in her. Before Me continually are grief and wounds." - Jer 6:6-7

Interestingly, God says the same thing of Nineveh in a prophecy with a far-fulfillment in End Time Babylon (Zeph 2:15 says Nineveh is the city who dwells securely & who says 'I and none beside,' precisely the boast of End Time Babylon in Isa 47:8).

Woe to the bloody city! It is all full of lies and robbery. Its victim never departs. - Nahum 3:1

There's a scroll with writing on both sides, containing lamentations, mournings, & woes in Ezekiel 2:10. The Lamb opens it to begin the Day of the Lord in Rev 5-6, & in Zech 5 it contains "the curse that goes out over the face of the whole earth." That curse targets the Thief and the Liar, more specifically the one who swears falsely [H8267] by the Lord's name (the 'christian' hypocrite/blasphemer who cloaks their covetousness with God's word and a veneer of righteousness), which is exactly who God goes on to mention in that first passage from Jer 6:13-15.

“Because from the least of them even to the greatest of them, everyone is given to covetousness; and from the prophet even to the priest, everyone deals falsely[H8267]. They have also healed the hurt of My people slightly, Saying, ‘Peace, peace!’ When there is no peace. Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? No! They were not at all ashamed; Nor did they know how to blush. Therefore they shall fall among those who fall; At the time I punish them, They shall be cast down[H3782],” says the Lord."

'Cast down' means 'to fall' and 'to stumble'... that is why we are seeing what we are everywhere within Christianity now. It's God's judgment. Anyhow, I didn't mean to lecture :-) God's word is just so amazing & it gets clearer every day as it is fulfilled.

[Disclaimer-Blue Letter Bible, although useful for Strongs concordance, is closely affiliated with Chuck Missler & promotes Lambert Dolphin, both of which are HUGE Nephilim peddlers, so use caution. Their brief 'outline of biblical usage' has also been completely & misleadingly inaccurate at times. It's best to examine where else the word is used in scripture.]

BB, thanks for warning about this false teaching more than 6 years ago!

Anonymous said...

AW... What do you believe/understand regarding Nephilim in respect to The Word of God?.

AW said...

Biblebeliever, if you do end up reading Anna Salter's book, the chapter I cited is called 'Rose-Colored Glasses and Trauma.' I found that chapter and the one on Detecting Deception particularly helpful. She does give a warning prior to the chapter on Sadists, and I did heed it and skip that chapter. I know evil exists and is prevalent, and while I feel the obligation to not turn away from and ignore the abuse of others, I also agree with Salter that one can't just 'unsee' some things. Just a heads up for anyone interested in reading it.

Bible Believer said...

Sure the Nephilim teachings lead to denouncing people via blood. {lots of anti semitism in that} Some Nephilim believer told me all RH + blood people, red-heads and Hungarians were bound for hell. I mean things get really weird in that world. So yeah it has genocide connected to it. Even then "free will" is taken out of the game, with the elites all supposedly Lizard/dragon blood people who I suppose were "Born" do do evil instead of choosing it.

Bible Believer said...

Yes New Age beliefs are becoming intertwined with Christianity. I may write soon on how "success" in this life on multiple levels is seen by the world as a "sign" your Christianity is viable. Like an "advanced" best life now article but I am still thinking some things out. I've had some spiritual challenges lately, that are related to getting away from the spiritual abuser and others in this culture, who come with their false messages and promises of "miracles" and "life improvement. It is true that the you can "CHOOSE" to "CHANGE" your life club, adds more oppression to us all, and their messages are implicit now in many Christian circles. I am glad Anna Salter and Lundy Bancroft--he specialized in domestic abuse too--an area the churches have massively failed in, faced reality instead of just giving people more platitudes and lies. We live in a culture now that "blames the victim" and offers far more false "forgiveness" and support to the abusers. Even when that spiritual abuser and deliverance queen told me, that I was demonized from my abuse, she was given an excuse to my abusers and focusing on me as the "wicked" one who needed removal from sin. It is true this world does not have much justice. I have struggled myself thinking of the evil deeds even committed against me and others I love, and their abusers seem to just get rewarded in this world while good people have been crushed. I may write on some of these issues, as I have been thinking about some of these things. I have been under intense spiritual attack just saying. Some people went all out to try to destroy me. I believe God will be far more unhappy with those who do evil under His name. I would not want to be them on Judgement Day. With my spiritual abuser, I know she worked on others, and even was able to do more damage. I had the gift of distance, and a protective husband.

Thanks for the verses.

Speaking of Lambert Dolphin, I exposed him many years ago too.

I will be careful regarding the chapter on Sadists. I have done a lot of outside study on sociopathy [due to intense involvement with one I was related to], and malignant narcissism, but I understand not "unseeing" things.

AW said...

Anon 2:06, all I can say is I don't find Nephilim anywhere in the Bible. Sure, some verses are ambiguous, but one still cannot arrive at the Nephilim teachings without first using outside sources which then skew God's word. And some pretty key verses pro-Nephilim people use, I have found in my own study of God's word, actually mean something entirely different. That's also not taking into consideration my biggest objection (voiced on BB's post on the Nephilim deception)--the subtle shifting of 'blame' for God's judgment from mankind's sin to angelic/demonic/nephilim/dna/genetic contamination.

People who choose to believe that will fall for 'how do we fix this now in time to avert God's judgment.' Since they think that's why God is bringing judgment, they can justify desperate measures of cleansing 'evil' with the excuse that God will destroy the world if they don't <-- It's how they will justify genocide. It's no different than the New Agers who say resistors who refuse enlightenment are imperiling everybody's chance to collectively advance & must be removed.

On the other hand, there's a lot of stuff in the Nephilim teachings that I have come across before--in Nazi propaganda, in the neo-Nazi/white supremacist/militia rhetoric of "Christian Identity," in the space-beings-from-Sirius teachings of arch-fascist William Dudley Pelly (also big in the UFO mvmt), from Wesley Swift (preacher at McPherson's Foursquare church), from William Potter Gale (founder of the Posse Comitatus), Richard Butler (founder of Aryan Nation), William Branham (Latter Rain/NAR precursor).

Even the Sovereign Order of St John (SOSJ), with members like Gen. Boykin, VP of the Family Research Council & NAR 'apostle' Rick Joyner, got its start from a White (Fascist) Russian organization with links to the Thule Society (the ideological basis for the Nazis). The SOSJ also played a crucial role in disseminating the notorious forgery of the The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion after WWI in both Germany & the US (we saw where that went). And that's not even tying all of this into popular culture's constant barrage of the same themes.

My conclusion is that the coming deception is so big, people will not even stop to question if the entire thing is a lie. People will choose sides (aliens are good, aliens are demons) but the entire thing will be a deception. It will not be applied to the truly demonic phenomena, which the Joel's Army people will herald as their predicted 'outpouring' & great signs and wonders, possibly even the 'immortality' they've been promised in the here-and-now (Rev 9:6). But the Nephilim/Serpent Seed doctrine is solely so they have justification for killing off all their 'evil' opponents (& uncooperative Jews). Heck, they've even trained up their hyper-charismatic, Hebrew Roots people as 'replacement Jews.'

Remember Jesus warned in Matt 24 repeatedly against deception so close to truth even the elect will have difficulty discerning it! That means it will look like it's of God, good, righteous, moral, Christian, not evil & demonic. It's all converging exponentially to the culmination God warned us of. His judgment IS delusion on those who don't love the truth & final judgment for mankind's wickedness (which includes their shedding the blood of His servants, something they haven't yet filled up). The Nephilim teachings are a key part of how they will accomplish this.

For further discussion, I suggest we take it over to BB's Nephilim post.

Note-the linked blogger is not a Christian, but has a wealth of research & connections clearly laid out.

AW said...

BB, yeah, I was surprised at how immensely helpful Bancroft's book was for my experience with Malignant narcissists, even though he writes in the context of domestic abuse. The entitlement mindset and manipulation tactics are so similiar it's like they all have the same playbook (it must be what unrestrained and given-over self looks like).

I'm sorry you haven't had any justice. It's not right and we know it (I suspect our mere recognition of that fact made us even bigger targets, let alone calling them out on it). And there's just so many out there now, it's not only not safe, it's perilous just like Paul warned of the last days. I'm glad you have your husband and I will pray for your ongoing protection.

A good example of 'Christianity' teaching visible success and prosperity in the here-and-now is Elihu's rant at Job, where he basically tells Job that God always rewards and blesses the righteous and if something bad happens, it's because they did something sinful (Job 36:7-12).

The ironic thing is that real believers know that God does preserve us, though it can be through death and suffering. He does avenge the poor and the oppressed, but not always in the present. I know it's in His mercy, not willing that any should perish that He has relented as long as He has, but there is so much evil and cruelty in this world that I often ask Him why, how much longer? I don't think it's too much longer, but unfortunately it means more evil and wickedness prospering.

Psalm 92:7 - When the wicked spring up like grass, And when all the workers of iniquity flourish, It is that they may be destroyed forever.

Dolphin is an evil man, that's my impression given his extensive deep ties to Stanford Research Institute and military intelligence. His Cayce-funded Sphynx excursion was part of building the deception (how do we know they didn't plant something in the 'hall of records' that will amazingly reveal mankind's true origin and destiny at just the right time?)

I read your post and you are spot on about the true temple being the Body of Christ. If they want to settle for a physical building that they had to set the region on fire to get, well, God will punish them accordingly. Talk about trampling underfoot the Son of God... they are like Edom, selling their birthright for a single meal (Heb 10:29, 12:16).

Bible Believer said...

I remember the Nephilim garbage when reading Alice Bailey and esoteric books. It still creeps me out when I saw it in Christianity. Here's one odd thing I was reading some anti-Scientology blogs today from watching the Leah Remini shows, and they said, that non-Scientologists are called "wogs" and Hubbard taught removal from the earth people of too "low tone". All the Nephilim stuff sets up special races and DNA wars like Serpent Seed against each other. Leah Remini and others all said, that Scientologists believe they are saving the planet. Reminds me of the New Agers too who preach the same thing, so yes the exact same as New Agers who say resisters should be removed. [one can see that one playing out big time for real Christian persecution.]

I saw Nephilim in the "Watchers" stuff written by Alice Bailey and ah yes like you in the UFO movement, it also was in general Theosophy and lots of places. Witches, or Wiccans call them the Grigori. It was ALL over the place. So to see it in "evangelical" Christianity creeped me out.

That's interesting about the Thule Society, suppose it does not surprise me.

I believe whatever great delusion there is, most of Christiandom will follow, and have considered various scenarios, some of course believe it will involve "aliens" and "project blue beam". Sure Jesus warns in Matt 24 most will be deceived and it will appear "good", perhaps some "save planet earth" venture with the Pope heading it up and "false prophet". I want to puke when I hear false preachers ignore the fact of the man of perdition and setting up for a false "jesus". I agree that the Nephilim teachings are part of the set-up. The New Age, and other false religions pointing to "lesser humans" and "evil DNA" will help advance the whole sickening spectacle.

I will have to check out the links later thanks.

Bible Believer said...

I am sure Bancrofts book could be applied to all abusers, with domestic abuse just one facet so may be an interesting book. The manipulation tactics go deep. When I learned about gas lighting and other manipulations it opened my eyes to a lot. I have noticed the wicked act alike too. They act arrogant, superior like the spiritual abuser in this article and NEVER ADMIT THEY ARE WRONG.

Yes it is hard not to have justice in this world. It isn't right. Sometimes I have struggled greatly seeing the good suffer and the wicked prosper, it has caused some spiritual angst as of late. I believe the number of wicked people is growing and well, it got scary for me. I believe we are in perilous times. Even with this blog, I have some fears because they are discussing stamping out "fake news" Will blogs be next. They can't claim I am Russia propaganda, when I have negative things written about Putin all over this place, but I can see them saying any NWO writing is now "illegal" even if one is just calling out wickedness in leaders and wants better for their country. One odd thing, this blog has extremely high Russian traffic. Not sure how that's happening. It's strange. I don't write about Russia that much. Thank for your prayers of protection.

I need to check out Elihu's rant. Wow so many people being told that in the churches. the epitome of the "best life" now beat downs.

This is something Ive had to realize, that things may not be justified in this life. So many are not instructed in that. I have feared even for my own faith as some things in life have gotten very hard. How many simply are not told that simple truth, when in reality many Christians have lost their lives in history. They weren't the "good church people" during the Inquisitions but called "trouble-makers", "wicked" etc.

I ask how much longer too? I was so unsettled seeing that broken down person die, and wicked people triumph. With this "deliverance" thing, I have realized how deep evil can go, and I have to admit, it is scary. The lengths people will go to "mind control" you and seek to destroy even on non-physical fronts, is immense.

Yes as things get worse more evil and more will prosper. I have cried out to God, sometimes it is too much. With this deliverance thing, my disappointment was so intense. Hmm great verses, "when the wicked spring up like grass...." yes they are all over the sure feels that way.

Agree about Dolphin, sure some alien 'knowledge" thing could be installed to be used ahead of time. when they are messing around with archeology it can make for all sorts of plans.

I am glad you agree about the true temple of Christ, yes their desire for building a temple is evil, remember even the freemasons openly support that plan too. They trust in this world and this applies to Catholic Eucharist "idols" too.

Anonymous said...

Look at the papal iron cross as the spokes of the wheel chair in that sketch....James

Anonymous said...

If you are saved, your new nature cannot be touched by demons or by Satan, but your old nature is susceptible to them in quite a few ways. You are susceptible to temptation, deception, harassment, threats and other oppression. This is why we are warned that the devil walks about as a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.

"Deliverance ministries" say that they are all about exercising authority over demons: their authority and they also emphasize your taking your authority. If you suggest that perhaps prayer might be helpful, they actually discourage it, which is interesting. Without Jesus, we can do nothing! Why would we want to leave Him out and do it on our own, whether the way they teach our having authority is accurate or not? Even if it was exactly what the Bible meant, why wouldn't prayer and seeking the fellowship of Jesus Christ be at least helpful, to put it mildly? It's pretty peculiar that they want you relying on authority and not on Him. It ought to be a big red flag.

When you let them work on you, it's all about trying to somehow get whatever it is in you that generates sin out of you. You end up with all of this that is intended to have you wrestling with yourself, hyperventilating and trying to bresthe, burp or vomit out what is essentially your sin nature, which cannot be exorcised by any means. If we somehow truly can have demons "in" us, I assume bodily, Jesus is the one who knows how to separate us from them. If we are harassed by demonic oppression, He's the one who knows how to takes us through to the other side of that, too, as difficult and painful as it is to endure oppression while it lasts. Maybe what we need most of all is cleansing and forgiveness, and we can have that: if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive is our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness, and confess simply means say the same thing: we agree with Him that it is sin. If we need to change something that is habitual, we can have our minds renewed. God knows what we are made of so much better than we do, and certainly more than they do. And contrary to what they always claim, we have every right to take it to Jesus instead of them.